Yes. This is the husband's last name.

He's not in now?

Is your husband also a doctor?

Colonel?

Yes, colonel.

Are you a lieutenant colonel?

Five years?

How did you study?

We met with Lyudmila Ivanovna Nuikina just the other day. A well-dressed, pleasant lady, who now and then turns into French in conversation, looked least of all like a scout. We talked for two hours. And it became clear: Lyudmila Ivanovna is a real colonel.

Tell me, is Nuikina a real surname?

Yes. This is the husband's last name.

He's not in now?

He left a long time ago, back in 1998. I would like to tell you a little about it.

Been friends with him since the age of 16. True, I lived in the village of Shemonaikha, more precisely, in the village of Verkh-Uba. She worked in the taiga for five years as a midwife. There the trees converge at the top, and so that the sun is not visible. And we met in Ust-Kamenogorsk, this is in East Kazakhstan, where I studied at a medical school.

Is your husband also a doctor?

No, he graduated from MGIMO. My husband was awesome. We worked with him for so many years. This was my immediate supervisor.

Colonel?

Yes, colonel.

Are you a lieutenant colonel?

No, Colonel, but I got it when my husband was gone. He left in 1998 - a heart attack. We are used to holding ourselves in all situations. He had a heart attack at the airport, but he forced himself to drive his car, drive to our clinic, stand in line for a medical card, and then relaxed a little. And clinical death ensued. He was resurrected for five hours and saved. After that, he lived for another year.

And I worked for a long time. At the age of 70 she retired, and then for eight years she helped, continued the same work.

How did you get into intelligence?

When my husband was studying at MGIMO, people from the First Main Directorate contacted him, now it is called the Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation.

I don’t know the details, I never asked, it’s somehow not customary with us. So for 38 years and did not ask. But I can tell you how our services find the right people. Watch, meet, observe. Then they talk and, if suitable, they offer this kind of work. And they are looking to see if he will become a scout or not. Once, when I was still working on my medical line, my husband somehow casually asked me: do you want to work with someone else's passport? And I say: why do I need a stranger, I have my own good one. And we never talked about anything like that again. My husband was confident in me that I would follow him. My son, who was born here, is already 3 years old, and I went to training. And we studied for a long time.

Five years?

Even longer than usual. It so happened. But I comprehended many wisdoms, learned several languages, without which I would be nowhere.

How did you study?

With a teacher and myself. I read English books. I watched TV all day in English, French. And when we arrived there, I already had a base of both French and Spanish. To begin with, we worked out our biographical legend in a country with a French language. Yes, and taught him too.

But it must have been dangerous, right?

Well no. Then not so much. If something happened to me, I would say that I am Russian.

And have you ever been scared?

Yes, it's scary in any country. We were trained just in the one that was not entirely capitalist, rather socialist. And we needed to get married soon. Everywhere it takes three months: apply, wait. And then our colleague suggested: why are you crowding around here, why do you need to waste these three months, move to another state, and everything will be done in three weeks, even two. We did just that. And immediately an announcement appeared in the local newspaper that Mr. So-and-so and Mademoiselle So-and-so were going to tie the knot.

What was your name?

I am Erica, and my husband, for example, Karl.

Where were the witnesses?

It worked out: the lawyer already had two ready. But then suddenly the notary puzzled us, asked my husband: what is the name of his mother? There was half a second of confusion, no more, and the lawyer noticed, said: mister, don’t worry, I understand that you have such an event today, but calm down, everything is going fine, we all go through this. And my husband immediately remembered. But the very fact that a stranger noticed and there was a hitch was unpleasant. It was, perhaps, the only place where we slightly pierced.

And still had to get used to their life. We were taught one thing here - it was often completely different there. There is no need to be nervous, to flog a fever, you need to get used to this mundane and everyday. I seem to be used to it, and suddenly such nonsense. Remember when we had trouble with toilet paper? And when I saw huge packs in the supermarket, I filled the entire cart with them. Husband to me immediately: what are you doing? Put it in place now.

Did you only speak the language of the country where you lived?

You know how it was. Very early in the morning in Moscow, we were escorted to the plane. We got into the car, and the Russian language no longer existed for us. Honestly, I speak as before an icon. Even when occasionally there were some small disputes, quarrels, they never switched to Russian.

Some illegal immigrants told me that, when they really wanted to, they went into the forest, chatting in their native language.

We have never had this. The farther from the Russian, the easier. But there were some things that came from somewhere in the soul involuntarily. We go to the same country with a stroller, in it is our little Andre, who was born already there. In no country in the world did we even know and did not want to know where our embassy was. It was better for us and for everyone who worked with us. And then I saw a building, so beautiful, we had already passed it, and for some reason I was not easily pulled. I returned with a stroller, and at that moment some guy was walking towards us, either with a bucket or a basin, and it turned out that we had an instant meeting.

Does this mean that it was possible to suspect that one of the two of you passed something to someone?

It accidentally happened. I turned around with my stroller, and this one - here, and we met on some line. For us, it seems to be imperceptible, but for someone who knows. And there was a building opposite the embassy, ​​and, of course, they sat there. And this service of theirs followed everyone who passed by the embassy.

We managed to get away quickly. But someone is already behind us. We are trained for this, we studied: they are behind. Follow us. My husband understood everything. Let's go and speak our French. We're moving on. My husband: calmly, do not be nervous. We didn’t pull them, didn’t do anything and weren’t going to do anything. And there is a baby in the stroller, and this is very good for outdoors.

So it's a solid couple. And then the husband decided to change dollars for local currency. Andre and I stayed for a walk, and he went to the bank across the street. And I see that they followed him. That's the advantage of our work, working as a couple. You can always see one after another who is following you or not. And when we were still studying, we always did it, we checked it. My husband in Moscow told me: Redhead (that's what he called me, at home he called me Redhead), today you are free. No checks. And I'm also his Red. Well, it's so, by the way. And then I look, and outdoor advertising is already there in position. Maybe we will have some kind of meeting or transmission of something else. And behind him. He changes dollars, and the outdoor guy looks over his shoulder to see what passport his husband has. The husband felt it, let him see it, changed it, returned, and moved on. We chat in French, discuss the restaurant where we will feed our baby. We know for sure that they are nearby, so be it, for God's sake. The most important thing is not to be nervous. And this is the law.

We appear out of thin air. Nowhere. We are nobody, and there is no way to call us

And have you always followed the law?

Yes, although it was sometimes a little unpleasant. In one country went to the transfer of documents. The very ones for which they were in this state and who were mined. You go up the road, you go down.

The route was specially chosen. If someone were following us, they would not have noticed that we were walking past a telephone booth and for a few seconds, not even seconds, but at some point, the person who followed us would not be able to see that we were in this dead zone. And at that moment, we just did what we needed to do in our work. It was specially worked out, worked out, run in.

And then, when they passed by the embassy and went to a restaurant, what happened next?

Never mind. We sat and talked. They still followed us and fell behind.

But after that, I never came close to any embassies.

Has it ever happened that you, young and beautiful, were noticed by foreigners? We tried to get acquainted, and this also made discomfort.

Once it was. Once at the airport, a young Italian became attached. He called me Mademoiselle all the time. I even missed the flight to the country I needed to, but my suitcase flew away. And there our man must meet not only him, but also me. He would not know that the suitcase had arrived, and when he did not see me, he became alarmed. The next flight of this airline is in a week. And I raised such a high: wait seven days, but I will blow up your whole rack with a Molotov cocktail, if you don’t send it to any other. So they put me on Aeroflot, which also flew to where I badly needed it, once a week. Well, I had to take a chance, get into Aeroflot territory. How I felt that I had to hurry: two days later, in the country from which I so successfully carried my legs, there was a coup. And who knows what would happen to me next. I would be stuck there. And so I flew away at three in the morning and all the way I listened to the chatter of artists from the Bulgarian folklore ensemble, who amused each other.

Have you visited many countries?

In many. But the main thing is not only this. Do you know what "sit down" means? This means legalizing in the country where you arrived. Settle down - quite so simple. After all, we appear as if out of thin air. Nowhere. We are nobody, and there is no way to call us. Yes, you have a document, but this main document is also issued by the Center.

Was the passport real?

But how. We had both dad and mom. We were not originally born on our own.

But all this is a legend. Because here begins the most difficult part of our service - subsidence. Everyone is looking at you warily. Even when we got married, when the baby was born. For many, it is strange that young people came here, but why? What will they do? Do they have money? But in this country, we found something with which we could open our, let's say, representative office.

It's not entirely clear which one?

Yes, and you don’t need to really understand it, it’s like that the husband represents some kind of company in that country, where we came from. We don't have a permanent address. And even when we got married, my husband indicated the address of the country where we were supposed to move. And the clerk who drew up the document drew attention to this. He asks: why are you in a completely different place? The husband was ready, he answered: they decided to live there. And here it is, work. You accept us with love as your own. And all this in jest, with a smile. But, really, when you come, you have to justify your existence, show what you live on. This is what we call "cover". And there was such a cover: we are representatives here from Europe, and our firm is such and such.

Well, my husband was selling something, and you?

And I studied.

And what was your specialty?

Well, I could be a typist secretary. Stenographer. By the way, once she was amazed at her literacy. When I was studying, the French director gave us the most difficult dictation. I was the only foreigner in the group and wrote perfectly well. And how the headmistress reprimanded everyone else. Here, a person from another country, wrote in French without a single mistake. How embarrassing for you. Well done, Erica.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, dear Erica, how did you get to the very main thing, for the sake of which all these settlements and all these crossings? To the fact that it was necessary to transfer, get, and before that get to know people?

We were prepared for this. And we knew our business. Dating is also hard.

If you are a simple cleaning lady or a porter, then these tall ones are not to be approached. It was necessary to find exactly those who have information. In institutions of this kind, for example, I could not work officially.

There is a local population, but which is also divided into whites and blacks. And women in this region do not work. In Southeast Asia, in Africa, it is very difficult for a white man, and even a woman, to get settled. This is a rarity, when they don’t find it among the locals, then only then they will take a foreigner.

But I still had to communicate somewhere, get to know each other.

The husband had to flee to the Soviet embassy. Then he was taken out on a ship. But the ship miraculously did not sink

But how?

That's why there are clubs where the wives of bankers, civil servants, in a word, people invested with confidence come. The poor will not go there. Firstly, contributions must be paid there, and secondly, they would hardly have been accepted with contributions. And thirdly, you need to dress appropriately. I met ladies at the club. They, one in front of the other, naturally, boasted about who had a better husband. I pulled my ear, who, what and where. She told her husband. He listened, analyzed, advised. Try to get closer with this one and that one. And when they became girlfriends, they introduced their husbands to each other. And the husband on his own, at his undercover work, where you need to do a lot, go out to someone. That's the way. People talk to each other, communicate. And you will learn a lot for your country you need.

Did you do any recruiting?

It was not our task. Recruitment is a very serious matter. There are few people here that you can hit. You get in - and we need to quickly clean up home.

Suppose we noticed someone interesting for our service and transferred to the Center all his data: weaknesses, on which you can take, crush or buy. One, for example, a German divorced his wife, helped his beloved son and built a huge house. A useful person who desperately needed money. Moreover, he left our country of temporary residence for another state. We are about him to the Center, and there it is already a matter of our service, to recruit him, no. And when we more or less settled in this country, we were already hooked, we had a good environment, pleasant acquaintances. But that's no luck. This idiot is gone.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, I know who you are talking about. Hero of Russia Alexei Mikhailovich Kozlov, who spent several years on death row in South Africa because of the traitor Oleg Gordievsky, hated him.

Can you imagine, he was at our house. I studied with my husband. Luckily, he didn't know my details. But I understood that I would work together with my husband. I will not go into details, but he even remembered our Moscow coordinates. How sad I was that Gordievsky ran away. I do not know all the details, but how did he look for us. At that time, Yuri Ivanovich Drozdov was our chief.

A legendary man, he led illegal intelligence for 11 years.

And this one asked Drozdov exactly where we were. That is why they searched for us for a long time and did not have time to arrest us. Yuri Ivanovich is an experienced man, he said to him: don't worry, they are not far from you, from your England. What is nearby? So we are somewhere in Europe. This is what saved it. We have been looking for 13 years. If we were in Europe, we might have found it earlier. If you could only imagine how much I hate traitors.

Can you tell me frankly, before the troubles that did come, did you feel some kind of tension around you?

Yes. An English couple lived next to us in Southeast Asia. Although they presented themselves as husband and wife, it seems that it was all fake.

One day I was invited to my house for dinner. Suddenly both, as if on command: sorry, we'll go out to change. She turned around, and on the table was a book in Russian - "Anna Karenina". I to my husband. He told me: we are looking at the pictures. They have a lot of paintings on the walls. How to react here? And they were standing somewhere nearby, maybe there was a hole in the wall. Perhaps they took a picture.

We reacted and, having had a "wonderful" dinner, parted ways. Then some strange phone calls began to be heard. Some people tried to get into the apartment and even put a "bug". Luckily, they didn't take me seriously. They thought it was his wife, an unprepared person. And I felt everything. In this job, everything is sharpened. All feelings.

Vision. You run like a horse, but you look not only forward, but also to the right, and to the left, and almost back. What else is difficult for one, that one cannot be in such tension all the time. And when we are together, somehow you make life easier and help each other. An actor spends three or four hours on stage, well, let him do more. Went out and forgot. And we can't play 24 hours a day. But it's impossible to play for months. We must live, get used to the image. When you have been working for a long time, you become that person from the legend. Everyone remembers radio operator Kat, who screamed in Russian during childbirth. But I was not afraid of this, I was prepared in such a way that I screamed only in my native language, at that moment it was French.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, why, after all, more specifically, your orders and medals with your husband?

How can I explain to you... For concrete results that contributed to the technological breakthrough of our country, including in the defense sector.

Did I confuse you? This is just what can be said. Let the rest remain behind the scenes.

key question

But how did it happen in the country where you got a "bug"?

Let's be brief. I left and had to return there again from Moscow. But something happened. The husband had to flee to the Soviet embassy. He was taken out in a car, put on a ship that was being repaired in a foreign port. Whole operation. Details later.

The husband spent several difficult days in unbearable conditions. Otherwise, they could find other people's services searching the ships. And they got caught in a storm. And it seems that the end was near. Because the captain of the Soviet ship warned her husband: do you have clean clothes? My husband didn't understand at first. And here in Moscow for the first time in so many years a telegram came to me. It's from him. Then the second. Never once did he make himself known.

Never! But the whole ship was saved. Hooked on the cable - and in Vietnam. And here he is from this terrible heat in shorts, but with an expensive attaché case, flew to Moscow at 6 in the morning.

And no more property was seized?

No, but what to do. I got a call at 6 am: "Redhead, where are you?" I say: "I'm at home, and where are you?" My husband: "I'm in Moscow, we flew in. Do you have money? Take 10 rubles, go downstairs, I took a taxi." So, thank you, Lord, everything ended well. Such a service.

Retired SVR Colonel Elena Vavilova told KP about how our agents worked in the United States, how they were exchanged for a traitor, and what Moscow and Washington should prepare for next

No need to remove me with orders, this is immodest, - protests the hostess of the house, showing her awards for 25 years of service at our request.

And we are offended that pseudo-stars climbing everywhere desperately remind of themselves, and the country often does not know real heroes ...

Elena Vavilova worked abroad for a quarter of a century as an illegal intelligence agent, performing serious tasks together with her husband Andrei Bezrukov and supplying the Kremlin with important and timely information. An intense life under the guise of foreigners (or under false names) was cut short in 2010 due to betrayal. As part of a group of 10 Russian intelligence officers, she was exchanged for Sergei Skripal and several citizens convicted in Russia of espionage. All attention then was drawn to herself by the vamp girl Anna Chapman, and her colleagues lived in their homeland again in the shade. And now, 9 years later, Elena Vavilova, in collaboration with the writer Andrei Bronnikov, has published a fiction book inspired by her story, “A Woman Who Can Keep Secrets,” and invited Komsomolskaya Pravda to visit her.

BEAUTIFUL AND INVISIBLE

- Elena Stanislavovna, it is somehow commonly believed that intelligence does not have a woman's face. It's a delusion?

Intelligence has different faces. It doesn't really matter if it's a man or a woman. In the history of our intelligence, there are a lot of wonderful women who did the work on an equal basis with men. The profession is difficult, for many it is associated with such masculine qualities as endurance, courage, bravery. But women are also by nature quite courageous and can perform complex tasks. Being at work for many years, I was convinced by my own example that everything is possible.

Feminine qualities - intuition, understanding of a person's character - help.

Is your bright appearance a positive or rather a negative quality in intelligence? You immediately draw attention to yourself.

I thought I was average. When selecting a job, it is customary to proceed from the fact that a person with bright external data should not be taken. Those are remembered.

- And how then did they take Anna Chapman?

So she had other good qualities that perhaps outweighed her flamboyant looks. In general, each person can be used for a specific task. In some cases, an attractive woman can perform a task better.

In some - you need to be more inconspicuous, to remain invisible. I think it's too bad to stand out. But there must be a certain charm and attractiveness, because you need to be able to win over the interlocutor, develop normal relationships. Without it, nowhere.

- Marriages among illegal immigrants for love, like yours, is it a rarity?

If the marriage is for love, so much the better for work. The bonds of mutual support are important. My husband and I met in our student years, before we were accepted for training. Most couples do this. And what was shown in the TV series "The Americans" (filmed based on the story of our illegal immigrants. - Auth.), Where future spouses are introduced to each other and they announce joint work, this option is not very suitable, because such people trust each other less . We had to get married twice: the first time in Tomsk, and then abroad under other names. The option when people love each other is the most reliable.

AMERICAN SMILE DID NOT BE EASY

The work of an illegal intelligence officer is probably the most difficult - you are trying to get used to the role of a foreigner and live someone else's life for years. And there are so many small moments that threaten to fail. Veteran of the Foreign Intelligence Service Lyudmila Nuikina told me that she was identified abroad by the buttons on her bra. You wrote in your book that Russians bend their fingers when counting, while foreigners do the opposite. How to take into account all these little things?

Certain skills, of course, are taught. It is necessary to develop for oneself the manners characteristic of a non-Russian person. Along with the language of the country, a person adopts its culture. Many features of behavior had to be observed and repeated. For example, the famous American smile, their ability to always express optimism, we mastered not immediately. But gradually, when you start imitating people, it comes.

FIRST TASK - PASTOR

In the book, the heroine's first task was to approach a Catholic pastor in Vancouver. For this, she even organized a wedding. If you had a similar situation, were you a believer at that time, or was this sacrament (albeit a Catholic one) just an official necessity for you?

We were trained as Catholics and attended church. It is impossible to say that they were religious at that moment. We just knew how to behave in the Catholic Church. There was no wedding in real life, but I had to sing in the choir in Latin and French. Religion carries universal human values ​​that every person should have and educate them in their children. It was part of our life, the life of the society where we were. Everything was quite natural.

- And what task was the most difficult or memorable for you?

One cannot be singled out. There were tasks that we could not complete or complete in a short time for some reason. There were ups and downs. But work is made up of many elements. You can’t go on the move, like James Bond, to find and defuse a conditional bomb. Work is constant work. Sometimes monotonous, sometimes not so interesting. But there were useful sources of information, there were important findings that came to our leadership in time and, I hope, helped to make the right decisions. For the reader to understand the role of such intelligence information, the novel describes situations that could well occur (for example, about the upcoming operation in Yugoslavia or plans to merge oil companies led by Khodorkovsky's Yukos and under the control of the United States. - Auth.).

Scout is not James Bond. However, in training you did shooting and karate. Have you used these techniques in your life?

Mandatory training of a person who has to work abroad for a long time included many elements: language, special training, technical skills. You had to be in good physical shape, be able to defend yourself, for example, from a street attack. Self-defense was one of the important disciplines, and through karate we acquired these skills. And through shooting, too, although it was not useful to us abroad.

In 2010, the President of Russia awarded Vavilova with the Order of Merit for the Fatherland, IV degree. Photo: Mikhail FROLOV

EVEN THE ASHES WERE DESTROYED

- How did your typical working day in the USA look like?

Like the working day of any ordinary person living there. Moreover, we had a family. In the morning I took the children to school, in the afternoon I picked them up, took them to classes. They played sports and music. During the daytime I worked in a real estate agency, but I could have had some activities related to my work as a scout. I cannot talk about it in detail. We worked at two jobs: we earned money in American companies, and as part of the most important work for us, we obtained useful information, processed it and forwarded it to the Center using certain methods.

- Destroying even the ashes...

Undoubtedly. Our safety and the success of our work depended on such minor strokes. The working day was double loaded, so it turned out to be long. We didn't rest on weekends either.

OBAMA'S Bug

- In what circles did you move in America? Were you familiar with those whose names the whole world knows?

Yes they were. I can't explain it specifically, but living in a suburb of Boston, which is famous for having many well-known politicians, American thought leaders and scientists working there, we met interesting people through whom we could get valuable information.

In the book, your heroine bugged an assistant to Barack Obama himself when he was a senator from Illinois and was just thinking about the presidential election...

The novel is a work of fiction and this episode, again, is included in the narrative in order to clearly illustrate what kind of information an illegal can get. Information about potential candidates for the presidency is certainly important. It helps to assess the alignment of political forces, predict the future course of the leadership of a particular country and prepare for it in a timely manner.

Visiting former intelligence officer Elena Vavilova.“The American smile was not easy”: “Komsomolskaya Pravda” visited the former illegal spy Elena VavilovaMikhail FROLOV

CHILDREN CONSIDERED THEMSELVES CANADIAN

In 2010, everything ended abruptly. The FBI arrested you at your home during your eldest son's birthday. Have you rehearsed such a scenario with your spouse that they break into you with weapons, you find yourself in a cell, you are persuaded to confess?

We did the work and believed that everything was being done taking into account all the necessary conditions of security and secrecy. No one expected such an outcome, when everything will break at once, and your efforts will come to naught due to the actions of one person. In our case, it was a betrayal. This is the risk of our profession, but we are never ready for it. And it is very difficult to predict how you will behave. But after something happens, you already begin to mobilize your internal resources and think about how to get out of the situation with fewer losses.

All this happened in front of your children Tim and Alex, who considered themselves Canadians and had no idea about anything (the spouses previously worked in Canada and, according to legend, were Canadian citizens, their children were born there . - Auth.). Did you manage to say a word to them when they took you away?

Our children were shocked when they saw their parents being taken out in handcuffs. At that moment it was impossible to explain anything. Our meeting took place the next day, when they were present at the court session, where we were given a preliminary charge. I managed to tell them in French to leave the city. They did not believe everything that happened, and could not imagine that we have Russian roots...

- How did they survive it? Has it been accepted? Have you been forgiven for cheating?

For them, it was a difficult period due to a sharp change in the situation and moving to Russia. It took time to process the situation. We talked for a long time with our sons, trying to explain our position, why we made such a choice in our youth, why we did this work. And gradually, thanks to the fact that we had a close relationship with them, we managed to find a common language. They understood us and accepted our choice. But they themselves wanted to make their own decisions in the future and not have anything to do with our profession.

Family photo with husband Andrei Bezrukov and sons Tim and Alex.

HOW THEY EXCHANGE FOR SKRIPAL

How did the exchange take place? Was it like what we saw in Dead Season or Spielberg's Bridge of Spies?

The exchange was organized quickly, for which we are grateful to our government. We were taken to the Vienna airport. Instead of a bridge, there is an airfield on which two planes landed: one from Russia, the other from the USA. We went down the ladder and saw people getting off the ladder opposite. But we didn't see them up close. We moved to the Russian plane by bus, we were met by friendly people. The planes took off at the same time. I couldn't imagine in prison that everything would be so safe!

I was ready for a long prison term. I thought about how and how I can help the children. In Moscow, she appeared before them in a prison uniform. Some managed to change because the jailers kept their clothes. In my case, this was not the case. So it flew.

How were you treated in prison by the Americans? How did they announce the decision to exchange you for Sergei Skripal and several other spies?

We obeyed all the necessary conditions of detention. It was not very pleasant, but tolerable. The attitude was correct enough. The solitary confinement cells had very strong air conditioners, it was cold and lonely. But these tests can be withstood, there is nothing terrible here. There was no pressure and serious interrogations, because they had already received everything they needed from the traitor. Once a lawyer arrived at the prison together with a representative of our embassy, ​​and he announced that an agreement had been reached at the highest level, and we would soon be released. This was incredible news.

- Did you personally know Skripal?

No. We learned about all the identities for whom we were exchanged upon our return from the press. Before that, I had no idea who these people were.

- Do you follow the ups and downs of his case now? What was it?

We are following, but I cannot express any opinion, because there are not enough specific facts that could lead to unambiguous conclusions.

Some of your colleagues have expressed the opinion that perhaps this was revenge on Skripal from those whose careers he ruined. Is it generally accepted to take revenge on traitors? Nobody touches the defector Gordievsky.

I do not think that such methods are used by Russian organizations.

The mistress of the house with a donated book "Komsomolskaya Pravda" about the Cheka. Photo: Mikhail FROLOV

IS THE TRAITOR POTEEV ALIVE

- And what happened to Colonel Poteev of the SVR who betrayed your network? Is the information about his death in the USA reliable?

Again, lack of information. In many cases related to our profession, everything is usually shrouded in mystery. What we heard about his residence in the US, death, then "resurrection" may be speculation or stuffing. So I can't say with certainty. I don't think anyone can. Nobody provided any concrete facts and evidence.

- Did you know him?

Yes unfortunately.

- Intuition did not work?

We didn't have a long relationship with him. And we could judge some of his human external manifestations only from a few episodes. To my husband, he seemed not very professional compared to others who surrounded us and who worked with us. Didn't make a very good impression.

- What motivated them?

It is very difficult to judge the motives of a person who committed such a crime. There may be a combination of several reasons: greed, living conditions that he was promised, blackmail, career dissatisfaction, friction with colleagues. A whole tangle of motives can push a person to betrayal. But he also had another choice: he could simply leave the organization and do something else, but not take the step of betraying the people he worked with.

- And the failures of illegal immigrants are mainly due to betrayal?

Almost exclusively...

Cover of the book "A woman who knows how to keep secrets" by the publishing house "EKSMO".

"PARENTS DID NOT KNOW WHERE WE LIVE"

Did you have any friendly contacts after your departure from the West? Or are your former friends in shock and no longer get in touch?

Of course, most are shocked. Even if they respected us as ordinary people, many were afraid for their reputation. I don't blame them for this. But there are those for whom our personal qualities turned out to be more important than our profession, and they understand that any country has professionals who work for intelligence. With those who decided not to break off relations with us, we exchange news in a friendly way.

- In encrypted chats?

No, you are completely open. But there are few of them. Of course, most people are exposed to propaganda in their own country. Especially now.

- Did your relatives in Russia at least guess something?

It was a shock to everyone, including parents. They had no idea that we were in the USA, and even at first they did not attach any importance to the news about the arrest of Russians there. For them, we were in a completely different place.

You have been living your real life for 9 years now. To what extent are you used to it, what do you do and why did you decide to write a book?

I thought about this idea for a long time, but did not know how to approach it. Then there was a push from the writer Bronnikov, who turned out to be my countryman. We started working together. Why was it easy for me to write this story? Because a lot has been felt. I changed some points so as not to decipher what we did, where we lived. I also wanted to write about a woman. It seemed to me that in modern literature and cinema, the image of a woman who, along with men, serves the interests of the Motherland as a scout is not sufficiently represented ..

- Did you see the rest of the scouts for the first time only at the trial or did you know each other before?

Work is always carried out separately from each other and scouts, especially illegals, should never cross paths. But the originality of our history is that we met. For the first time, before the final court session, I saw my female colleagues in a pre-trial detention cell. This is an unprecedented case. Because many of those scouts who successfully worked and returned do not know their colleagues. With us, it turned out that we met married couples who had children, and continued to communicate after arriving in Russia. It helped us get through the drama and support each other. We remained friends.

WHAT TO PREPARE FOR

What conclusions did you come to about the mood of American society and elites towards Russia? Can we still be partners, not opponents?

This requires the desire of the leadership and sufficiently favorable geopolitical conditions. The Americans and I are different in mentality, in approaches, in the conduct of politics. But in purely human, cultural terms, we could be closer. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was such a surge, and even it seemed to us that now the world is opening up, globalization will lead to the unification of nations, including through cultural, universal ties. Unfortunately, politics and differences in the national interests of countries sometimes do not contribute to the maintenance of these friendly ties. What we are now seeing.

- What is your forecast for relations between Moscow and Washington, taking into account the Mueller report, which justified Trump?

I hope that there will be a new reboot and relations will improve. But for this we need to wait for the arrival of a new generation of politicians from both sides, not overshadowed by what is happening now. In ten years, the situation may change.

HELP "KP"

Elena Stanislavovna VAVILOVA born November 16, 1962 in Tomsk, graduated from Tomsk State University with a degree in history. Since the 1980s - in illegal intelligence with her husband Andrei Bezrukov. On June 27, 2010, she was arrested in Boston under the name of real estate agent Tracey Lee Ann Foley and then, along with 10 colleagues, was returned to Russia. Currently working in one of the large companies.

Colonel of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Russia, retired. She was awarded the Order of Merit for the Fatherland, IV degree, and other military orders and medals.

Retired SVR Colonel Elena Vavilova told KP about how our agents worked in the United States, how they were exchanged for a traitor, and what Moscow and Washington should prepare for next.

No need to remove me with orders, this is immodest, - protests the hostess of the house, showing her awards for 25 years of service at our request.

And we are offended that pseudo-stars climbing everywhere desperately remind of themselves, and the country often does not know real heroes ...

Elena Vavilova worked abroad for a quarter of a century as an illegal intelligence agent, performing serious tasks together with her husband Andrei Bezrukov and supplying the Kremlin with important and timely information. An intense life under the guise of foreigners (or under false names) was cut short in 2010 due to betrayal. As part of a group of 10 Russian intelligence officers, she was exchanged for Sergei Skripal and several citizens convicted in Russia of espionage. All the attention was then drawn to herself by the vamp girl Anna Chapman, and her colleagues lived in their homeland again in the shade. And now, 9 years later, Elena Vavilova, in collaboration with the writer Andrei Bronnikov, has published a fiction book inspired by her story, “A Woman Who Can Keep Secrets,” and invited Komsomolskaya Pravda to visit her.

BEAUTIFUL AND INVISIBLE

- Elena Stanislavovna, it is somehow commonly believed that intelligence does not have a woman's face. It's a delusion?

Intelligence has different faces. It doesn't really matter if it's a man or a woman. In the history of our intelligence, there are a lot of wonderful women who did the work on an equal basis with men. The profession is difficult, for many it is associated with such masculine qualities as endurance, courage, bravery. But women are also by nature quite courageous and can perform complex tasks. Being at work for many years, I was convinced by my own example that everything is possible.

Feminine qualities - intuition, understanding of a person's character - help.

Is your bright appearance a positive or rather a negative quality in intelligence? You immediately draw attention to yourself.

I thought I was average. When selecting a job, it is customary to proceed from the fact that a person with bright external data should not be taken. Those are remembered.

- And how then did they take Anna Chapman?

So she had other good qualities that perhaps outweighed her flamboyant looks. In general, each person can be used for a specific task. In some cases, an attractive woman can perform a task better.

In some - you need to be more inconspicuous, to remain invisible. I think it's too bad to stand out. But there must be a certain charm and attractiveness, because you need to be able to win over the interlocutor, develop normal relationships. Without it, nowhere.

- Marriages among illegal immigrants for love, like yours, is it a rarity?

If the marriage is for love, so much the better for work. The bonds of mutual support are important. My husband and I met in our student years, before we were accepted for training. Most couples do this. And what was shown in the TV series "The Americans" (filmed based on the story of our illegal immigrants. - Auth.), Where future spouses are introduced to each other and they announce joint work, this option is not very suitable, because such people trust each other less . We had to get married twice: the first time in Tomsk, and then abroad under other names. The option when people love each other is the most reliable.

Elena and Andrey got married for the second time already abroad, under false names. Photo: Personal archive

AMERICAN SMILE DID NOT BE EASY

The work of an illegal intelligence officer is probably the most difficult - you are trying to get used to the role of a foreigner and live someone else's life for years. And there are so many small moments that threaten to fail. Veteran of the Foreign Intelligence Service Lyudmila Nuikina told me that she was identified abroad by the buttons on her bra. You wrote in your book that Russians bend their fingers when counting, while foreigners do the opposite. How to take into account all these little things?

Certain skills, of course, are taught. It is necessary to develop for oneself the manners characteristic of a non-Russian person. Along with the language of the country, a person adopts its culture. Many features of behavior had to be observed and repeated. For example, the famous American smile, their ability to always express optimism, we mastered not immediately. But gradually, when you start imitating people, it comes.

FIRST TASK - PASTOR

In the book, the heroine's first task was to approach a Catholic pastor in Vancouver. For this, she even organized a wedding. If you had a similar situation, were you a believer at that time, or was this sacrament (albeit a Catholic one) just an official necessity for you?

We were trained as Catholics and attended church. It is impossible to say that they were religious at that moment. We just knew how to behave in the Catholic Church. There was no wedding in real life, but I had to sing in the choir in Latin and French. Religion carries universal human values ​​that every person should have and educate them in their children. It was part of our life, the life of the society where we were. Everything was quite natural.

- And what task was the most difficult or memorable for you?

One cannot be singled out. There were tasks that we could not complete or complete in a short time for some reason. There were ups and downs. But work is made up of many elements. You can’t go on the move, like James Bond, to find and defuse a conditional bomb. Work is constant work. Sometimes monotonous, sometimes not so interesting. But there were useful sources of information, there were important findings that came to our leadership in time and, I hope, helped to make the right decisions. In order for the reader to understand the role of such intelligence information, the novel just describes situations that could well occur (for example, about the upcoming operation in Yugoslavia or plans to merge oil companies led by Khodorkovsky's Yukos and under US control. - Auth.).

Scout is not James Bond. However, in training you did shooting and karate. Have you used these techniques in your life?

Mandatory training of a person who has to work abroad for a long time included many elements: language, special training, technical skills. You had to be in good physical shape, be able to defend yourself, for example, from a street attack. Self-defense was one of the important disciplines, and through karate we acquired these skills. And through shooting, too, although it was not useful to us abroad.

In 2010, the President of Russia awarded Vavilova with the Order of Merit for the Fatherland, IV degree. A photo: Mikhail FROLOV

EVEN THE ASHES WERE DESTROYED

- How did your typical working day in the USA look like?

Like the working day of any ordinary person living there. Moreover, we had a family. In the morning I took the children to school, in the afternoon I picked them up, took them to classes. They played sports and music. During the daytime I worked in a real estate agency, but I could have had some activities related to my work as a scout. I cannot talk about it in detail. We worked at two jobs: we earned money in American companies, and as part of the most important work for us, we obtained useful information, processed it and forwarded it to the Center using certain methods.

- Destroying even the ashes...

Undoubtedly. Our safety and the success of our work depended on such minor touches. The working day was double loaded, so it turned out to be long. We didn't rest on weekends either.

OBAMA'S Bug

- In what circles did you move in America? Were you familiar with those whose names the whole world knows?

Yes they were. I can't explain it specifically, but living in a suburb of Boston, which is famous for having many well-known politicians, American thought leaders and scientists working there, we met interesting people through whom we could get valuable information.

In the book, your heroine bugged an assistant to Barack Obama himself when he was a senator from Illinois and was just thinking about the presidential election...

The novel is a work of fiction and this episode, again, is included in the narrative in order to clearly illustrate what kind of information an illegal can get. Information about potential candidates for the presidency is certainly important. It helps to assess the alignment of political forces, predict the future course of the leadership of a particular country and prepare for it in a timely manner.

Visiting former intelligence officer Elena Vavilova.“The American smile was not easy”: “Komsomolskaya Pravda” visited the former illegal spy Elena VavilovaMikhail FROLOV

CHILDREN CONSIDERED THEMSELVES CANADIAN

In 2010, everything ended abruptly. The FBI arrested you at your home during your eldest son's birthday. Have you rehearsed such a scenario with your spouse that they break into you with weapons, you find yourself in a cell, you are persuaded to confess?

We did the work and believed that everything was being done taking into account all the necessary conditions of security and secrecy. No one expected such an outcome, when everything will break at once, and your efforts will come to naught due to the actions of one person. In our case, it was a betrayal. This is the risk of our profession, but we are never ready for it. And it is very difficult to predict how you will behave. But after something happens, you already begin to mobilize your internal resources and think about how to get out of the situation with fewer losses.

All this happened in front of your children Tim and Alex, who considered themselves Canadians and had no idea about anything (the spouses previously worked in Canada and, according to legend, were Canadian citizens, their children were born there . - Auth.). Did you manage to say a word to them when they took you away?

Our children were shocked when they saw their parents being taken out in handcuffs. At that moment it was impossible to explain anything. Our meeting took place the next day, when they were present at the court session, where we were given a preliminary charge. I managed to tell them in French to leave the city. They did not believe everything that happened, and could not imagine that we have Russian roots...

- How did they survive it? Has it been accepted? Have you been forgiven for cheating?

For them, it was a difficult period due to a sharp change in the situation and moving to Russia. It took time to process the situation. We talked for a long time with our sons, trying to explain our position, why we made such a choice in our youth, why we did this work. And gradually, thanks to the fact that we had a close relationship with them, we managed to find a common language. They understood us and accepted our choice. But they themselves wanted to make their own decisions in the future and not have anything to do with our profession.

Family photo with husband Andrei Bezrukov and sons Tim and Alex. A photo: Mikhail FROLOV

HOW THEY EXCHANGE FOR SKRIPAL

How did the exchange take place? Was it like what we saw in Dead Season or Spielberg's Bridge of Spies?

The exchange was organized quickly, for which we are grateful to our government. We were brought to the Vienna airport. Instead of a bridge, there is an airfield on which two planes landed: one from Russia, the other from the USA. We went down the ladder and saw people getting off the ladder opposite. But we didn't see them up close. We moved to the Russian plane by bus, we were met by friendly people. The planes took off at the same time. I couldn't imagine in prison that everything would be so safe!

I was ready for a long prison term. I thought about how and how I can help the children. In Moscow, she appeared before them in a prison uniform. Some managed to change because the jailers kept their clothes. In my case, this was not the case. So it flew.

How were you treated in prison by the Americans? How did they announce the decision to exchange you for Sergei Skripal and several other spies?

We obeyed all the necessary conditions of detention. It was not very pleasant, but tolerable. The attitude was correct enough. The solitary confinement cells had very strong air conditioners, it was cold and lonely. But these tests can be withstood, there is nothing terrible here. There was no pressure and serious interrogations, because they had already received everything they needed from the traitor. Once a lawyer arrived at the prison together with a representative of our embassy, ​​and he announced that an agreement had been reached at the highest level, and we would soon be released. This was incredible news.

- Did you personally know Skripal?

No. We learned about all the identities for whom we were exchanged upon our return from the press. Before that, I had no idea who these people were.

- Do you follow the ups and downs of his case now? What was it?

We are following, but I cannot express any opinion, because there are not enough specific facts that could lead to unambiguous conclusions.

Some of your colleagues have expressed the opinion that perhaps this was revenge on Skripal from those whose careers he ruined. Is it generally accepted to take revenge on traitors? Nobody touches the defector Gordievsky.

I do not think that such methods are used by Russian organizations.

The mistress of the house with the presented book "Komsomolskaya Pravda" about the Cheka. A photo: Mikhail FROLOV

IS THE TRAITOR POTEEV ALIVE

- And what happened to Colonel Poteev of the SVR who betrayed your network? Is the information about his death in the USA reliable?

Again, lack of information. In many cases related to our profession, everything is usually shrouded in mystery. What we heard about his residence in the US, death, then "resurrection" may be speculation or stuffing. So I can't say with certainty. I don't think anyone can. Nobody provided any concrete facts and evidence.

- Did you know him?

Yes unfortunately.

- Intuition did not work?

We didn't have a long relationship with him. And we could judge some of his human external manifestations only from a few episodes. To my husband, he seemed not very professional compared to others who surrounded us and who worked with us. Didn't make a very good impression.

- What motivated them?

It is very difficult to judge the motives of a person who committed such a crime. There may be a combination of several reasons: greed, living conditions that he was promised, blackmail, career dissatisfaction, friction with colleagues. A whole tangle of motives can push a person to betrayal. But he also had another choice: he could simply leave the organization and do something else, but not take the step of betraying the people he worked with.

- And the failures of illegal immigrants are mainly due to betrayal?

Almost exclusively...

Cover of the book "A woman who knows how to keep secrets" by the publishing house "EKSMO".

"PARENTS DID NOT KNOW WHERE WE LIVE"

Did you have any friendly contacts after your departure from the West? Or are your former friends in shock and no longer get in touch?

Of course, most are shocked. Even if they respected us as ordinary people, many were afraid for their reputation. I don't blame them for this. But there are those for whom our personal qualities turned out to be more important than our profession, and they understand that any country has professionals who work for intelligence. With those who decided not to break off relations with us, we exchange news in a friendly way.

- In encrypted chats?

No, you are completely open. But there are few of them. Of course, most people are exposed to propaganda in their own country. Especially now.

- Did your relatives in Russia at least guess something?

It was a shock to everyone, including parents. They had no idea that we were in the USA, and even at first they did not attach any importance to the news about the arrest of Russians there. For them, we were in a completely different place.

You have been living your real life for 9 years now. To what extent are you used to it, what do you do and why did you decide to write a book?

I thought about this idea for a long time, but did not know how to approach it. Then there was a push from the writer Bronnikov, who turned out to be my countryman. We started working together. Why was it easy for me to write this story? Because a lot has been felt. I changed some points so as not to decipher what we did, where we lived. I also wanted to write about a woman. It seemed to me that in modern literature and cinema, the image of a woman who, along with men, serves the interests of the Motherland as a scout is not sufficiently represented ..

- Did you see the rest of the scouts for the first time only at the trial or did you know each other before?

Work is always carried out separately from each other and scouts, especially illegals, should never cross paths. But the originality of our history is that we met. For the first time, before the final court session, I saw my female colleagues in a pre-trial detention cell. This is an unprecedented case. Because many of those scouts who successfully worked and returned do not know their colleagues. With us, it turned out that we met married couples who had children, and continued to communicate after arriving in Russia. It helped us get through the drama and support each other. We remained friends.

WHAT TO PREPARE FOR

What conclusions did you come to about the mood of American society and elites towards Russia? Can we still be partners, not opponents?

This requires the desire of the leadership and sufficiently favorable geopolitical conditions. The Americans and I are different in mentality, in approaches, in the conduct of politics. But in purely human, cultural terms, we could be closer. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was such a surge, and even it seemed to us that now the world is opening up, globalization will lead to the unification of nations, including through cultural, universal ties. Unfortunately, politics and differences in the national interests of countries sometimes do not contribute to the maintenance of these friendly ties. What we are now seeing.

- What is your forecast for relations between Moscow and Washington, taking into account the Mueller report, which justified Trump?

I hope that there will be a new reboot and relations will improve. But for this we need to wait for the arrival of a new generation of politicians from both sides, not overshadowed by what is happening now. In ten years, the situation may change.

HELP "KP"

Elena Stanislavovna VAVILOVA born November 16, 1962 in Tomsk, graduated from Tomsk State University with a degree in history. Since the 1980s - in illegal intelligence with her husband Andrei Bezrukov. On June 27, 2010, she was arrested in Boston under the name of real estate agent Tracey Lee Ann Foley and then, along with 10 colleagues, was returned to Russia. Currently working in one of the large companies.

Colonel of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Russia, retired. She was awarded the Order of Merit for the Fatherland, IV degree, and other military orders and medals.

We met with Lyudmila Ivanovna Nuikina just the other day. A well-dressed, pleasant lady, who now and then turns into French in conversation, looked least of all like a scout. We talked for two hours. And it became clear: Lyudmila Ivanovna is a real colonel.

Tell me, is Nuikina a real surname?

Yes. This is the husband's last name.

He's not in now?

He left a long time ago, back in 1998. I would like to tell you a little about it. Been friends with him since the age of 16. True, I lived in the village of Shemonaikha, more precisely, in the village of Verkh-Uba. She worked in the taiga for five years as a midwife. There the trees converge at the top, and so that the sun is not visible. And we met in Ust-Kamenogorsk, this is in East Kazakhstan, where I studied at a medical school.

Is your husband also a doctor?

No, he graduated from MGIMO. My husband was awesome. We worked with him for so many years. This was my immediate supervisor.

Colonel?

Yes, colonel.

Are you a lieutenant colonel?

No, Colonel, but I got it when my husband was gone. He left in 1998 - a heart attack. We are used to holding ourselves in all situations. He had a heart attack at the airport, but he forced himself to drive his car, drive to our clinic, stand in line for a medical card, and then relaxed a little. And clinical death ensued. He was resurrected for five hours and saved. After that, he lived for another year. And I worked for a long time. At the age of 70 she retired, and then for eight years she helped, continued the same work.

How did you get into intelligence?

When my husband was studying at MGIMO, people from the First Main Directorate contacted him, now it is called the Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation. I don’t know the details, I never asked, it’s somehow not customary with us. So for 38 years and did not ask. But I can tell you how our services find the right people. Watch, meet, observe. Then they talk and, if suitable, they offer this kind of work. And they are looking to see if he will become a scout or not. Once, when I was still working on my medical line, my husband somehow casually asked me: do you want to work with someone else's passport? And I say: why do I need a stranger, I have my own good one. And we never talked about anything like that again. My husband was confident in me that I would follow him. My son, who was born here, is already 3 years old, and I went to training. And we studied for a long time.

Five years?

Even longer than usual. It so happened. But I comprehended many wisdoms, learned several languages, without which I would be nowhere.

How did you study?

With a teacher and myself. I read English books. I watched TV all day in English, French. And when we arrived there, I already had a base of both French and Spanish. To begin with, we worked out our biographical legend in a country with a French language. Yes, and taught him too.

But it must have been dangerous, right?

Well no. Then not so much. If something happened to me, I would say that I am Russian.

And have you ever been scared?

Yes, it's scary in any country. We were trained just in the one that was not entirely capitalist, rather socialist. And we needed to get married soon. Everywhere it takes three months: apply, wait. And then our colleague suggested: why are you crowding around here, why do you need to waste these three months, move to another state, and everything will be done in three weeks, even two. We did just that. And immediately an announcement appeared in the local newspaper that Mr. So-and-so and Mademoiselle So-and-so were going to tie the knot.

What was your name?

I am Erica, and my husband, for example, Karl.

Where were the witnesses?

It worked out: the lawyer already had two ready. But then suddenly the notary puzzled us, asked my husband: what is the name of his mother? There was half a second of confusion, no more, and the lawyer noticed, said: mister, don’t worry, I understand that you have such an event today, but calm down, everything is going fine, we all go through this. And my husband immediately remembered. But the very fact that a stranger noticed and there was a hitch was unpleasant. It was, perhaps, the only place where we slightly pierced. And still had to get used to their life. We were taught one thing here - it was often completely different there. There is no need to be nervous, to flog a fever, you need to get used to this mundane and everyday. I seem to be used to it, and suddenly such nonsense. Remember when we had trouble with toilet paper? And when I saw huge packs in the supermarket, I filled the entire cart with them. Husband to me immediately: what are you doing? Put it in place now.

Did you only speak the language of the country where you lived?

You know how it was. Very early in the morning in Moscow, we were escorted to the plane. We got into the car, and the Russian language no longer existed for us. Honestly, I speak as before an icon. Even when occasionally there were some small disputes, quarrels, they never switched to Russian.

Some illegal immigrants told me that, when they really wanted to, they went into the forest, chatting in their native language.

We have never had this. The farther from the Russian, the easier. But there were some things that came from somewhere in the soul involuntarily. We go to the same country with a stroller, in it is our little Andre, who was born already there. In no country in the world did we even know and did not want to know where our embassy was. It was better for us and for everyone who worked with us. And then I saw a building, so beautiful, we had already passed it, and for some reason I was not easily pulled. I returned with a stroller, and at that moment some guy was walking towards us, either with a bucket or a basin, and it turned out that we had an instant meeting.

Does this mean that it was possible to suspect that one of the two of you passed something to someone?

It accidentally happened. I turned around with my stroller, and this one - here, and we met on some line. For us, it seems to be imperceptible, but for someone who knows. And there was a building opposite the embassy, ​​and, of course, they sat there. And this service of theirs followed everyone who passed by the embassy. We managed to get away quickly. But someone is already behind us. We are trained for this, we studied: they are behind. Follow us. My husband understood everything. Let's go and speak our French. We're moving on. My husband: calmly, do not be nervous. We didn’t pull them, didn’t do anything and weren’t going to do anything. And there is a baby in the stroller, and this is very good for outdoors. So it's a solid couple. And then the husband decided to change dollars for local currency. Andre and I stayed for a walk, and he went to the bank across the street. And I see that they followed him. That's the advantage of our work, working as a couple. You can always see one after another who is following you or not. And when we were still studying, we always did it, we checked it. My husband in Moscow told me: Redhead (that's what he called me, at home he called me Redhead), today you are free. No checks. And I'm also his Red. Well, it's so, by the way. And then I look, and outdoor advertising is already there in position. Maybe we will have some kind of meeting or transmission of something else. And behind him. He changes dollars, and the outdoor guy looks over his shoulder to see what passport his husband has. The husband felt it, let him see it, changed it, returned, and moved on. We chat in French, discuss the restaurant where we will feed our baby. We know for sure that they are nearby, so be it, for God's sake. The most important thing is not to be nervous. And this is the law.

We appear out of thin air. Nowhere. We are nobody, and there is no way to call us

And have you always followed the law?

Yes, although it was sometimes a little unpleasant. In one country went to the transfer of documents. The very ones for which they were in this state and who were mined. You go up the road, you go down. The route was specially chosen. If someone were following us, they would not have noticed that we were walking past a telephone booth and for a few seconds, not even seconds, but at some point, the person who followed us would not be able to see that we were in this dead zone. And at that moment, we just did what we needed to do in our work. It was specially worked out, worked out, run in.

And then, when they passed by the embassy and went to a restaurant, what happened next?

Never mind. We sat and talked. They still followed us and fell behind. But after that, I never came close to any embassies.

Has it ever happened that you, young and beautiful, were noticed by foreigners? We tried to get acquainted, and this also made discomfort.

Once it was. Once at the airport, a young Italian became attached. He called me Mademoiselle all the time. I even missed the flight to the country I needed to, but my suitcase flew away. And there our man must meet not only him, but also me. He would not know that the suitcase had arrived, and when he did not see me, he became alarmed. The next flight of this airline is in a week. And I raised such a high: wait seven days, but I will blow up your whole rack with a Molotov cocktail, if you don’t send it to any other. So they put me on Aeroflot, which also flew to where I badly needed it, once a week. Well, I had to take a chance, get into Aeroflot territory. How I felt that I had to hurry: two days later, in the country from which I so successfully carried my legs, there was a coup. And who knows what would happen to me next. I would be stuck there. And so I flew away at three in the morning and all the way I listened to the chatter of artists from the Bulgarian folklore ensemble, who amused each other.

Have you visited many countries?

In many. But the main thing is not only this. Do you know what "sit down" means? This means legalizing in the country where you arrived. Settle down - quite so simple. After all, we appear as if out of thin air. Nowhere. We are nobody, and there is no way to call us. Yes, you have a document, but this main document is also issued by the Center.

Was the passport real?

But how. We had both dad and mom. We were not originally born on our own. But all this is a legend. Because here begins the most difficult part of our service - subsidence. Everyone is looking at you warily. Even when we got married, when the baby was born. For many, it is strange that young people came here, but why? What will they do? Do they have money? But in this country, we found something with which we could open our, let's say, representative office.

It's not entirely clear which one?

Yes, and you don’t need to really understand it, it’s like that the husband represents some kind of company in that country, where we came from. We don't have a permanent address. And even when we got married, my husband indicated the address of the country where we were supposed to move. And the clerk who drew up the document drew attention to this. He asks: why are you in a completely different place? The husband was ready, he answered: they decided to live there. And here it is, work. You accept us with love as your own. And all this in jest, with a smile. But, really, when you come, you have to justify your existence, show what you live on. This is what we call "cover". And there was such a cover: we are representatives here from Europe, and our firm is such and such.

Well, my husband was selling something, and you?

And I studied.

And what was your specialty?

Well, I could be a typist secretary. Stenographer. By the way, once she was amazed at her literacy. When I was studying, the French director gave us the most difficult dictation. I was the only foreigner in the group and wrote perfectly well. And how the headmistress reprimanded everyone else. Here, a person from another country, wrote in French without a single mistake. How embarrassing for you. Well done, Erica.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, dear Erica, how did you get to the very main thing, for the sake of which all these settlements and all these crossings? To the fact that it was necessary to transfer, get, and before that get to know people?

We were prepared for this. And we knew our business. Dating is also hard. If you are a simple cleaning lady or a porter, then these tall ones are not to be approached. It was necessary to find exactly those who have information. In institutions of this kind, for example, I could not work officially. There is a local population, but which is also divided into whites and blacks. And women in this region do not work. In Southeast Asia, in Africa, it is very difficult for a white man, and even a woman, to get settled. This is a rarity, when they don’t find it among the locals, then only then they will take a foreigner. But I still had to communicate somewhere, get to know each other.

The husband had to flee to the Soviet embassy. Then he was taken out on a ship. But the ship miraculously did not sink

But how?

That's why there are clubs where the wives of bankers, civil servants, in a word, people invested with confidence come. The poor will not go there. Firstly, contributions must be paid there, and secondly, they would hardly have been accepted with contributions. And thirdly, you need to dress appropriately. I met ladies at the club. They, one in front of the other, naturally, boasted about who had a better husband. I pulled my ear, who, what and where. She told her husband. He listened, analyzed, advised. Try to get closer with this one and that one. And when they became girlfriends, they introduced their husbands to each other. And the husband on his own, at his undercover work, where you need to do a lot, go out to someone. That's the way. People talk to each other, communicate. And you will learn a lot for your country you need.

Did you do any recruiting?

It was not our task. Recruitment is a very serious matter. There are few people here that you can hit. You get in - and we need to quickly clean up home. Suppose we noticed someone interesting for our service and transferred to the Center all his data: weaknesses, on which you can take, crush or buy. One, for example, a German divorced his wife, helped his beloved son and built a huge house. A useful person who desperately needed money. Moreover, he left our country of temporary residence for another state. We are about him to the Center, and there it is already a matter of our service, to recruit him, no. And when we more or less settled in this country, we were already hooked, we had a good environment, pleasant acquaintances. But that's no luck. This idiot is gone.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, I know who you are talking about. Hero of Russia Alexei Mikhailovich Kozlov, who spent several years on death row in South Africa because of the traitor Oleg Gordievsky, hated him.

Can you imagine, he was at our house. I studied with my husband. Luckily, he didn't know my details. But I understood that I would work together with my husband. I will not go into details, but he even remembered our Moscow coordinates. How sad I was that Gordievsky ran away. I do not know all the details, but how did he look for us. At that time, Yuri Ivanovich Drozdov was our chief.

A legendary man, he led illegal intelligence for 11 years.

And this one asked Drozdov exactly where we were. That is why they searched for us for a long time and did not have time to arrest us. Yuri Ivanovich is an experienced man, he said to him: don't worry, they are not far from you, from your England. What is nearby? So we are somewhere in Europe. This is what saved it. We have been looking for 13 years. If we were in Europe, we might have found it earlier. If you could only imagine how much I hate traitors.

Can you tell me frankly, before the troubles that did come, did you feel some kind of tension around you?

Yes. An English couple lived next to us in Southeast Asia. Although they presented themselves as husband and wife, it seems that it was all fake. One day I was invited to my house for dinner. Suddenly both, as if on command: sorry, we'll go out to change. She turned around, and on the table was a book in Russian - "Anna Karenina". I to my husband. He told me: we are looking at the pictures. They have a lot of paintings on the walls. How to react here? And they were standing somewhere nearby, maybe there was a hole in the wall. Perhaps they took a picture. We reacted and, having had a "wonderful" dinner, parted ways. Then some strange phone calls began to be heard. Some people tried to get into the apartment and even put a "bug". Luckily, they didn't take me seriously. They thought it was his wife, an unprepared person. And I felt everything. In this job, everything is sharpened. All feelings. Vision. You run like a horse, but you look not only forward, but also to the right, and to the left, and almost back. What else is difficult for one, that one cannot be in such tension all the time. And when we are together, somehow you make life easier and help each other. An actor spends three or four hours on stage, well, let him do more. Went out and forgot. And we can't play 24 hours a day. But it's impossible to play for months. We must live, get used to the image. When you have been working for a long time, you become that person from the legend. Everyone remembers radio operator Kat, who screamed in Russian during childbirth. But I was not afraid of this, I was prepared in such a way that I screamed only in my native language, at that moment it was French.

Lyudmila Ivanovna, why, after all, more specifically, your orders and medals with your husband?

How can I explain to you... For concrete results that contributed to the technological breakthrough of our country, including in the defense sector. Did I confuse you? This is just what can be said. Let the rest remain behind the scenes.

key question

But how did it happen in the country where you got a "bug"?

Let's be brief. I left and had to return there again from Moscow. But something happened. The husband had to flee to the Soviet embassy. He was taken out in a car, put on a ship that was being repaired in a foreign port. Whole operation. Details later. The husband spent several difficult days in unbearable conditions. Otherwise, they could find other people's services searching the ships. And they got caught in a storm. And it seems that the end was near. Because the captain of the Soviet ship warned her husband: do you have clean clothes? My husband didn't understand at first. And here in Moscow for the first time in so many years a telegram came to me. It's from him. Then the second. Never once did he make himself known. Never! But the whole ship was saved. Hooked on the cable - and in Vietnam. And here he is from this terrible heat in shorts, but with an expensive attaché case, flew to Moscow at 6 in the morning.

And no more property was seized?

No, but what to do. I got a call at 6 am: "Redhead, where are you?" I say: "I'm at home, and where are you?" My husband: "I'm in Moscow, we flew in. Do you have money? Take 10 rubles, go downstairs, I took a taxi." So, thank you, Lord, everything ended well. Such a service.

Knowledge of the smallest nuances of everyday life and customs of a country where illegal intelligence officers work is necessary for them to complete their tasks, said in an interview with the media on the eve of International Women's Day, Russian illegal intelligence officer, veteran of the Foreign Intelligence Service Lyudmila Nuikina.

Together with her husband, Nuikina worked illegally abroad. The details of their work are not disclosed. “Our difficulty at the beginning was connected with the Soviet upbringing. Everything is different.

How do women put on dresses? Through the head. And there - only below. And you need to know all these little things, ”said the scout.

“All old habits, all household skills had to be removed,” she stressed.

Once she made a mistake of a domestic nature. “Already when we settled quite firmly abroad, we went to the store. And there I got a bunch of toilet paper rolls. We remembered how bad it was with her at home. I took it mechanically in reserve, ”recalls Nuikina.

“The husband came up and quietly said, “Well, what are you doing?!”. I had to put everything out of the cart back before no one saw. Of course, he scolded me later - they say, you need to think, ”she added.

And once the husband involuntarily miscalculated. “We were trained to save money. And one day, going on a business trip for the company in which he worked, the husband bought himself an economy class ticket.

So his boss later summoned him to his place and said: “Why are you doing this? There will be rumors that our company is going bankrupt! Don’t do this again,” Nuikina said.

From the life of a scout: “With one hand you give the child a bottle, with the other you climb into the cache”

On the eve of the Day of the worker of the security agencies of the Russian Federation, which is celebrated on December 20, Komsomolskaya Pravda found out how our illegal intelligence officers live and work abroad

We know about the life of these people in foreign countries mainly from the movies. And then only in the performance of actors, with a large share of fiction. Real scouts, even after retiring, are silent. On the Day of security workers, celebrated on December 20, Komsomolskaya Pravda managed to talk with veteran of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Lyudmila Nuykina which opened the veil of secrecy. As much as possible.

It was the most unusual interview I have ever had. An absolutely European lady who spoke Russian with a slight accent and English and French words breaking through into emotional speech every now and then. There were so many emotions from what she had experienced over the decades that at the very first personal question (well, where without it), Lyudmila Ivanovna could not hold back her tears.

FAMILY GUESSED THANKS TO STIRLITS

- Lyudmila Ivanovna, how did you get into this profession?

I, as a Decembrist, came after my husband. When you don't know what you have to do yet, you're scared. We already had a 4-year-old son, Yura, who had to be left in the Soviet Union with grandmothers. My own Old Believer grandmother could not understand at all how a mother could leave a child. This decision was very difficult for me, but the wife follows her husband like a thread for a needle - this is how I was brought up. Relatives did not know anything about our mission, they thought that we were working at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and we could not take Yura with us on a business trip because of the bad climate. Only when the film "Seventeen Moments of Spring" was released, they began to compare the facts and guess about something.

- It is probably harder for a woman, because she is first and foremost a mother?

This was the hardest one for me. At first we did not see each other for a year, then the period of separation increased. I was very worried. She was drawn to children of Yura's age. And abroad we were asked all the time why we do not have children.

- And what did you answer?

At first, the husband said that the reason was in him. Men began to tease him, and then I already took the “blame” on myself. This gave me the opportunity, under the pretext of treatment in other countries, to secretly visit the USSR. These were infrequent and very long-awaited trips to the family. And in the intervals, every news about the son was worth a lot.

Were they transmitted orally or in writing?

We received a radiogram. Most of it was occupied by work, but about the personal they said: everything is fine with you, your son has grown up. It is very rare that more will be written. My husband and I will go to the ocean and begin to imagine how he looks, what he thinks. Once we received a message that Yura went to study ballroom dancing. We fantasized about how our son, a goof (he was plump, because his grandmothers felt sorry for him and fed him) was dancing. I gave birth to my second son Andre already abroad.

- Aren't you afraid, like in the movies, to scream in Russian during childbirth?

I have made my mother tongue my number one enemy. When we were going to go on a business trip, we already started to speak another language at home. Therefore, that episode with the radio operator Kat in the film personally seemed strange to me. During childbirth, the husband was there, but then he became ill, and the doctor said: remove him, I don’t know who to help. Andre was born and in such a real Russian Siberian voice as he screams. And we have a new anxiety - after all, we could be arrested at any moment, and we are already with a child. Although personally I tried not to think about it.

- Are there marriages between people of your profession for love or is yours rather an exception?

We went as husband and wife. Of course, not every woman can agree. Or for some other reason, something will not work - because of the language or some special disciplines. But when you have a complete family, there is less attention to you. And the child to some extent even helps in the work. You walk with the stroller, in the right place you give him a bottle with one hand, and with the other you climb into the hiding place.

CALCULATED BY BRA WITH BUTTON

- How did you prepare for life in the West? How did they copy a foreigner?

You can’t copy and play a role all the time - otherwise you will go crazy. You have to live the life of the madam that you represent. The first time we went abroad "for a run-in" as Soviet citizens, and in one country I went to the store. Communicated with the sellers in French, there was no suspicion that this was not my native language. But my nationality was calculated by ... underwear, when I tried on clothes - on Soviet bras there were not hooks, but buttons.

And then, after a long preparation, we were already abroad under the guise of foreigners. The escort just left us on the street, saying goodbye: well, guys, you are now on your own. The first time was very hard. We appear out of nowhere. You have to take care of yourself, no one will help you. The country was small, we knew when a plane was arriving from the Motherland. They looked at the passengers from afar, listened to their native speech and quickly left. In fact, this was a violation of the instructions - you never know who will know.

- And at home, you also could not afford to speak Russian among yourself?

No. But at first we had misfires. When I went as a foreigner to the socialist countries, the border guards entered the train, and I spoke in Russian: “Again?”. She blushed, huddled in a corner, I was so scared. But it worked out. I remember how in one small country there was a cafe on the beach, which, in my opinion, was run by American intelligence agencies. A well-drunk Negro became attached to my husband: you are Russian. He says: I can tell you that you are Russian. You should not give a look, but in your soul you immediately begin to think where you pierced. It was hard when our athletes came - we could not cheer for them. And once the Soviet football players in the hotel were discussing me, and I smiled sweetly. Although I so wanted to embed!

- And if you met acquaintances from a former life?

My husband was once standing at an airport in one of the countries, and then a classmate from MGIMO runs across the hall to him, shouting: “Vitaly!”. The husband replies in French that he was wrong. He does not lag behind, they say, what are you pretending to be. At such a moment, this acquaintance could ruin our entire career. As a result, he walked away, and then complained to our embassies that Vitaly was completely arrogant ...

EXPOSURE DURING THE WASHING

- And when did the children learn about your profession?

In 1985, when we were forced to return because of the betrayal of Oleg Gordievsky (former colonel of the First Main Directorate of the KGB of the USSR, sentenced in absentia to death for working for British intelligence. - Ed.). I remember how even during the preparation period he was at our house, I treated him to coffee with cognac ... Then they searched for us for a long time on his tip, he believed that we were in Europe, and we were already in Southeast Asia. And at the very end of our work abroad, I had a dream that my husband and I were arrested and they arranged a date for us. And I tell him: “Don’t worry, because Andre is not with us, and they won’t get anything from me personally.”

When did you realize it was time to go home?

Actually, I was already at home, on vacation - in my homeland, in a Kazakh village. I’m washing, and suddenly they shout: urgently run to the village council, they call you!

- To the village council?

There was a call from Moscow to the capital of Kazakhstan and further along the chain. The first thought was: something happened to Vitaly, he was staying abroad at that moment. But it turned out that it was a message that the husband was urgently evacuated, and our long-term work is being completed. Although, of course, it was already very hot.

- Did your foreign friends find out who you really are?

If they see my interview and recognize me at that age, then of course they will be hot too (laughs).

"HUSBAND SHOWED THE PRISON, TO NOT RELAX"

Is it easier or harder for scouts to work in the digital age? Perhaps the need for illegal immigrants is not so great, if it is possible, as we read today, to listen even to foreign leaders, to involve hackers?

I am now retired and have no right to know the details of these new technologies. On the one hand, it is probably easier, but on the other, even more attention and caution are needed. The agent is always afraid that he can be exposed. One of our couple was betrayed by a housekeeper. When they received the radiogram, she opened the door and let the security forces in. Once my husband said to me: "Let's go, I'll show you one place of residence just in case." And showed me the local prison. I asked him why he did it. “Just so you know,” he replied. "Always remember who we are and don't relax."

VERY PERSONAL

Do not be offended by obscene proposals

- What female type in your profession is preferable - inconspicuous or, on the contrary, attractive?

It is generally difficult for a woman to work alone, men are always looking at you. They think single people are available. Even then the morals in the West were free. I really did not like to go out alone, although I do not want to say that I am beautiful.

- But in vain.

Well, I don't know, maybe. They pestered even with her husband. I was aging myself - I put on a handkerchief so that they would not pay attention. You have meetings, something needs to be transferred or, conversely, taken, and when someone becomes attached, unnecessary problems arise. There was such a case: I was traveling alone as an unmarried woman to the Union through one country, an Italian clung to the airport. So delayed me in a cafe that I missed the plane. I made such a fuss that they let me into the night Bulgarian plane.

Or another story: we had a French banker we knew in Africa. I noticed a beautiful carpet in his house. And he says: "Erika (one of my then names), would you and I lie on this carpet." It offended me - strict Soviet upbringing, after all. And he was very surprised: a Western woman would not have reacted like that. And once I gave myself away in the cinema by the fact that I understand the Bulgarian speech. She looks like a Russian. Two women, seeing my reaction, said: she understands us. But then I was still in the "break-in", so it was not so scary.

Russian intelligence officer Nuikina admitted that she would have scratched out the eyes of the station chief in London who had betrayed her.

The fate of all defectors is constant fear. Such people are not loved anywhere, and they are forced to be afraid. So says Russian intelligence officer and veteran of the SVR Lyudmila Nuikina.

Together with her husband, she worked for the intelligence of the USSR and was on a mission abroad. She does not disclose the details of that case, however, the task was abruptly interrupted due to the betrayal of Oleg Gordievsky, head of the foreign intelligence station of the KGB of the USSR in London. Nuikina admitted that if she met this man, she would scratch out all his eyes.

According to her, a lot of effort and work was invested in that task. It was to be "a long stay abroad". She and her husband barely managed to settle down, acquire connections, when everything went down the drain because of one person - Gordievsky. Fortunately, both she and her husband returned safely to their homeland.

Nuikina noted that she does not envy the fate of the defectors. No one trusts such people, because the betrayer once can do it again. As a result, such people are forced to spend the rest of their lives in fear.

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